How to get rid of the Hi-Power Magazine Disconnect (lots of pics)

[televiper]

(originally posted on 'TFR' forum at somethingawful.com)

I upgraded my Hi-Power today, by which I mean I traded in my Charles Daly Hi-Power clone for a used but awesome Real-Deal Browning HP "Practical".

old/busted:
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w319/alecband/random%20gun%20stuff/100_0920.jpg


Hot newness:
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w319/alecband/hi-power%20disconnectomy/DSCF1309.jpg


Anyone got details on these proof marks?
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w319/alecband/hi-power%20disconnectomy/DSCF1314.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w319/alecband/hi-power%20disconnectomy/DSCF1319.jpg


In honor of this occasion, I've recorded the process of removing the single dubious feature of the Hi-Power - the magazine disconnect – using the Willie Coyote school of gunsmithing.

disclaimer

The following is presented for entertainment purposes only and viewers
are not encouraged to try this on their own. There are almost always better ways to perform the following than the methods displayed herein. All modifications to firearms should be done by a competent and qualified gunsmith. As always, neither somethingawful.com nor Televiper Systems Inc. shall be held responsible if the following is attempted and something goes awry, nor shall they be held responsible if you shoot your buddy in the face because you forgot that you removed your magazine disconnect and were acting like a moron and counting on a mechanical device to save you from your own idiocy.

Without going into too much detail, the main reasons the magazine disconnect is a pain are that it keeps standard magazines from dropping free and can cause the trigger to feel very gritty and rough (especially when using parkerized magazines). Some people will find that they do not need to follow all of the steps detailed below. I found that getting the mag disconnect out of my Charles Daly was significantly easier than getting it out of the Browning.


That little “T” shaped plunger visible in the front of the mag well is what we’re taking out.
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w319/alecband/hi-power%20disconnectomy/DSCF1294.jpg


And these:
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w319/alecband/hi-power%20disconnectomy/DSCF1269.jpg
are the hi-precision instruments that we’re going to use to do it. (not shown: brass and steel punches)


Field-strip your specimen and remove the grips
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w319/alecband/hi-power%20disconnectomy/DSCF1271.jpg


While not strictly necessary, I found it easier to remove the magazine release than to fight against it. Removing the release is a simple thing, so I recommend it.
Just take a small screw driver
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w319/alecband/hi-power%20disconnectomy/DSCF1279.jpg


and gently (GENTLY) try to turn the screw to the left while slowly pushing the release button. You will find that the screw doesn't turn at all until it suddenly rotates about 1/4 turn. You can’t see it while you do it, but there is a notch that accepts a flange on the screw. Once you fit the flange into the notch, the release will fall right out.
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w319/alecband/hi-power%20disconnectomy/DSCF1281.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w319/alecband/hi-power%20disconnectomy/DSCF1282.jpg


Take a dowel or something similar and place it under the trigger such that it supports the trigger and fits entirely within the trigger guard. I found that a .357 mag aluminum snap-cap fit perfectly. There should be a pin visible on the trigger just below where it comes out of the frame; we’re going to drive that pin out using something handy. A nail will work, but a punch would be better.
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w319/alecband/hi-power%20disconnectomy/DSCF1276.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w319/alecband/hi-power%20disconnectomy/DSCF1283.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w319/alecband/hi-power%20disconnectomy/DSCF1285.jpg


I found it easier to control the punch if I shortened it a bit. They’re cheap, so I wasn’t worried about having to get a new one.


It turns out the brass punch was a bit too soft...
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w319/alecband/hi-power%20disconnectomy/DSCF1286.jpg


…so I used a steal one. Which I’ve read you shouldn’t do, but it worked.
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w319/alecband/hi-power%20disconnectomy/DSCF1288.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w319/alecband/hi-power%20disconnectomy/DSCF1290.jpg


Save the pin for reinsertion when you’re donehttp://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w319/alecband/hi-power%20disconnectomy/DSCF1291.jpg


Knock out the trigger pivot pin using a brass punch and drive from right to left (the right side should be obviously tapered). Use something to prop the frame up so that the pin has room to fall out. The SMART way to do this is to use a bench block or a wooden block or with a hole drilled into it so that the pin can fall into it. I used the snapcap from earlier.
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w319/alecband/hi-power%20disconnectomy/DSCF1295.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w319/alecband/hi-power%20disconnectomy/DSCF1296.jpg


IMPORTANT: the magazine disconnect is under spring pressure, keep a hold on it or be prepared to get hit in the eye or have it fly across the room (or at least your workbench)


The trigger assembly will rotate out of the bottom of the frame.
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w319/alecband/hi-power%20disconnectomy/DSCF1299.jpg


With a little jiggling, you should be able to maneuver the assembly to a point where the magazine disconnect plunger points away from the frame and has room to be removed.
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w319/alecband/hi-power%20disconnectomy/DSCF1300.jpg


You may need to remove the trigger assembly and wiggle (or remove) the tripping lever/trigger lever (the black thing that sticks up from the trigger and presses the sear lever) if you find the disconnect plunger doesn’t come out on its own.
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w319/alecband/hi-power%20disconnectomy/DSCF1301.jpg


If you remove the trigger assembly, it is easy to drive the small pin back into the trigger. This isn’t necessary, but it retains the ‘stock’ look of the pistol and plugs a hole that crud could theoretically enter.


Reverse these steps to reassemble your pistol, perform a function check, and marvel at the improvements in trigger pull and mag droppy-free-ness.


Lessons learned
1) have good punches
2) if concerned about displaying serial numbers, it's easier to physically cover the marks on the gun before you start your work rather than try to edit 30+ pictures when you're finished.
3) make sure your nails are trimmed before showing them to the Internet.


Next time on Televiper Happy Fun Basement Gunsmith time, we’ll turn this:
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w319/alecband/hi-power%20disconnectomy/DSCF1306.jpg

Into something substantially more awesome.

[infrared35]

The oval with PV in it is the Belgian Nitro Proof stamp. The star with the backwards P is probably an in-house quality control stamp.

[W.E.G.]

How I removed the magazine safety disconnect on my Browning HiPower

THIS reply is about the ungodly-stubborn trigger axis pin.

I’ll cut straight to the chase.

I hope the lesson I learned will serve to help others.

You need ONE SPECIAL TOOL to save you all manner of frustration with this task.

You need an AUTOMATIC CENTER PUNCH.
It’s a center-punch and a spring-loaded hammer all in one tool.
One of these:

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/pistol%20pics/Browning%20HiPower/punch.jpg


I got mine from http://littlemachineshop.com/
In particular: http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=2620&category=
“Starrett Automatic Center Punch with adjustable stroke”
I run mine on FULL STROKE most of the time.

How it works:
“This punch has a lightweight, knurled aluminum handle for a positive grip and easy handling. No hammer is required! Just hold the punch in an upright position, press the handle down, and a built-in mechanism strikes a perfect center mark every time. The force of the blow can be adjusted by turning the knurled cap.”

The best $30.50 you could ever spend when fighting HiPower trigger pins.
Two or three “clicks” from this tool will have that trigger pin moving without any fuss.
Yes, it will put a small divot in the center of the pin. Compare that to the damage to the frame that is inevitable if you try other methods, and don’t really know what you are doing (witness myself).

I originally got my automatic center punch for center-punching rivets so I could drill them out while disassembling AK-47 kits. You will find all manner of uses for an automatic center punch once you have one in your tool kit. I found a new use today.

I first tried a brass punch and a gunsmithing hammer.
tap-tap-tap-tap… Nothing
tap-tap-tap-tap- tap-tap-tap-tap… still nothing
Tap-Tap-Tap-Tap-Tap-Tap Tap-Tap-Tap… STILL nothing
TAP-TAP-TAP- TAP-TAP-TAP- TAP-TAP-TAP… BOO-YAHHHHH!!!

The tip of the punch fractured and the punch skipped across the face of the frame, leaving a nasty tattoo.

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/pistol%20pics/Browning%20HiPower/idiotscratch.jpg


You see, this what will happen if you just wing it.

Figuring I had nothing more to lose now, I got out the steel punch and my biggest claw hammer.
WHANG-WHANG-WHANG-WHANG-WHANG-WHANG!… STILL NOTHING.
Well, except for another scratch on the frame and a mushroomed end of the trigger pin.

At this point I’m getting pretty annoyed, and I email my buddy 12-ton, and discuss mashing this thing in the Wilton vise, or the hydraulic press.

Taking a time out, it dawns on me that none of these pin-punches are getting any kind of good engagement on the trigger pin. So, why not CENTER-PUNCH the trigger pin so I can get the point of a 10-penny nail lined up on the pin? How to do it?... the Starrett automatic center punch!

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/pistol%20pics/Browning%20HiPower/punchandframe.jpg


I carefully placed the tip of the automatic punch on the center of the trigger pin.
Snap-snap-snap… HEY!!!!!!! The trigger pin is MOVING!
HOW ABOUT THAT.
Now, why didn’t I think of this BEFORE I scratched the frame of the gun.
Oh well, live and learn.

Once I got the pin moved just a short way, I was able to use the regular steel punch to drive the pin out the rest of the way with minimal effort. The only damage to the pin was the pin-prick mark on the right end of the pin.

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/pistol%20pics/Browning%20HiPower/punchmark.jpg



I hadn’t completely learned my lesson when I re-installed the pin.
I used the “gunsmith hammer” to try to drive the pin back into place.
Everything was fine until the last eighth of an inch. Then the pin stalled, and the hammer slipped, and I got ANOTHER new scratch on the other side of the frame.
At this point, I got out the automatic center punch again and drove the pin the rest of the way in without any fuss, except for the small pin-prick mark on the left end of the pin.

If I had just used the automatic center punch throughout, I could have avoided any scratching of the frame of the pistol. This is the lesson I hope I can share with you, and that you will use to not scratch your own guns.

By the way, it’s a cinch to get the trigger and the magazine disconnect assembly out of the gun once the trigger axis pin is removed. There is a SECOND PIN in the rear portion of the trigger that retains magazine disconnect assembly. You can drive that pin out before or after you get the trigger out of the gun. I was able to easily remove that second pin without the use of a giant hammer or the automatic center punch.

Whose idea was it anyway to design a trigger so that you’ve got this big “foot” grinding against the front side of the magazine every time you pull the trigger?

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/pistol%20pics/Browning%20HiPower/foot.jpg


http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/pistol%20pics/Browning%20HiPower/footandmag.jpg



The mark on the front of the mag is from that blasted disconnect gizmo dragging against the front of the mag every time the trigger is pulled. THAT is why the Browning HiPower trigger pull is TOTAL CRAP in its original configuration.
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/pistol%20pics/Browning%20HiPower/footdragmark.jpg


Here are the tools I used:
Basement floor covered with 70’s-era linoleum. Yes, I just laid on the floor and did it.
Two blocks of scrap wood. Lord knows how many “gunsmith” projects these bits of wood have been involved in.
The holy Starrett automatic center punch. You need one badly.
Eyeglasses – because I can’t see squat up close without glasses.
Why the earmuffs? Because before I figured out I could use the automatic center punch, I was lying on the floor with my face right next to the trigger guard, and trying to hold the gun, and the punch, and the blocks of wood, while swinging the hammer(s) next to my ear on the floor of the laundry room with the sound of the hammer-blows reverberating in my cranium like a hollow barrel.
Screwdrivers, punches, and pliers.

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/pistol%20pics/Browning%20HiPower/tools.jpg


Its all good I reckon.

[Clinotus]

How I removed the magazine safety disconnect on my Browning HiPower

THIS reply is about the ungodly-stubborn trigger axis pin.



Heck of a great first post! Welcome aboard. Nice detail btw.

[W.E.G.]

Some folks are reporting to me that they have been able to get the disconnect out by just knocking out this pin and "jiggling" the thingy that rubs against the magazine.

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/triggerpinrear.jpg

[Condition Write]

Wow. W.E.G., I had to register here just to thank you for that post. I have a thirdhand BHP that's been sitting in the back of the safe for months because of the godawful gritty trigger. I'd tried whacking the pin with brass and steel punches, yielding naught but a cratered pin and a bent-tipped chunk of mostly-useless brass. Fifteen bucks for an automatic centering punch at Home Despot and the pin started moving on the first shot.

[W.E.G.]

Awesome!

Did you get it apart by just having a go at the little pin on the trigger, or did you go the full monty, an knock-out the trigger axis-pin?

[Condition Write]

I went for full trigger removal. I wasn't certain I wanted to risk battering the trigger sideways against the frame if I screwed up my alignment.

Got to the range today and ran fifty rounds through it. Man, that's better.

[dondale]

Hey, thanks for the info by video. I have an unusual problem with my Argentine Hi Power. It does not have the magazine disconnect. Apparently the previous owner removed it. I've fired more than 100 rounds thru it with no malfunctions. Then, suddenly it would fire the first round from a loaded magazine, recoil, cock the hammer and feed a round into the chamber - but then it wouldn't fire the next round. It is as if the magazine disconnect was installed and the no magazine in the mag well and the trigger was pulled - the hammer would not fall. What's happening? Again, thanks for the mag disconnect post.

dondale

[Mrwintr]

Great "How to" thread Televiper. I have one question about removing the mag disconnect, in another thread somewhere about doing this procedure the person said you have to bend the back of the trigger return spring down a 1/4" in the back...?? after removing that mag plunger, so is that really not necessary or what? I didn't see anything in your thread about having to do any spring bending, so now I am confused as to what the pother person was talking about. Please let me know, or if someone else happens to know about the spring needing bending gladly chime in.
Thanks in advance!