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View Full Version : Fox News: Isn’t it important to know why all the victims were disarmed? :jawdrop:



Clinotus
12-06-2007, 03:44 PM
Amazing to see this in the mainstream, so many portions...I cant even bold text them.

Link to article. (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,315563,00.html)


The horrible tragedy at the Westroads Mall in Omaha, Neb. received a lot of attention Wednesday and Thursday. It should have. Eight people were killed, and five were wounded.

A Google news search using the phrase "Omaha Mall Shooting" finds an incredible 2,794 news stories worldwide for the last day. From India and Taiwan to Britain and Austria, there are probably few people in the world who haven’t heard about this tragedy.

But despite the massive news coverage, none of the media coverage, at least by 10 a.m. Thursday, mentioned this central fact: Yet another attack occurred in a gun-free zone.

Surely, with all the reporters who appear at these crime scenes and seemingly interview virtually everyone there, why didn’t one simply mention the signs that ban guns from the premises?

Nebraska allows people to carry permitted concealed handguns, but it allows property owners, such as the Westroads Mall, to post signs banning permit holders from legally carrying guns on their property.

The same was true for the attack at the Trolley Square Mall in Utah in February (a copy of the sign at the mall can be seen here). But again the media coverage ignored this fact. Possibly the ban there was even more noteworthy because the off-duty police officer who stopped the attack fortunately violated the ban by taking his gun in with him when he went shopping.

Yet even then, the officer "was at the opposite end and on a different floor of the convoluted Trolley Square complex when the shooting began. By the time he became aware of the shooting and managed to track down and confront Talovic [the killer], three minutes had elapsed."

There are plenty of cases every year where permit holders stop what would have been multiple victim shootings every year, but they rarely receive any news coverage. Take a case this year in Memphis, where WBIR-TV reported a gunman started "firing a pistol beside a busy city street" and was stopped by two permit holders before anyone was harmed.

When will part of the media coverage on these multiple-victim public shootings be whether guns were banned where the attack occurred? While the media has begun to cover whether teachers can have guns at school or the almost 8,000 college students across the country who protested gun-free zones on their campuses, the media haven’t started checking what are the rules where these attacks occur.

Surely, the news stories carry detailed information on the weapon used (in this case, a rifle) and the number of ammunition clips (apparently, two). But if these aspects of the story are deemed important for understanding what happened, why isn’t it also important that the attack occurred where guns were banned? Isn’t it important to know why all the victims were disarmed?

Few know that Dylan Klebold, one of the two Columbine killers, closely was following Colorado legislation that would have allowed citizens to carry a concealed handgun. Klebold strongly opposed the legislation and openly talked about it.

No wonder, as the bill being debated would have allowed permitted guns to be carried on school property. It is quite a coincidence that he attacked the Columbine High School the very day the legislature was scheduled to vote on the bill.

Despite the lack of news coverage, people are beginning to notice what research has shown for years: Multiple-victim public shootings keep occurring in places where guns already are banned. Forty states have broad right-to-carry laws, but even within these states it is the "gun-free zones," not other public places, where the attacks happen.

People know the list: Virginia Tech saw 32 murdered earlier this year; the Columbine High School shooting left 13 murdered in 1999; Luby's Cafeteria in Killeen, Texas, had 23 who were fatally shot by a deranged man in 1991; and a McDonald's in Southern California had 21 people shot dead by an unemployed security guard in 1984.

All these attacks — indeed, all attacks involving more than a small number of people being killed — happened in gun-free zones.

In recent years, similar attacks have occurred across the world, including in Australia, France, Germany and Britain. Do all these countries lack enough gun-control laws? Hardly. The reverse is more accurate.

The law-abiding, not criminals, are obeying the rules. Disarming the victims simply means that the killers have less to fear. As Wednesday's attack demonstrated yet again, police are important, but they almost always arrive at the crime scene after the crime has occurred.

The longer it takes for someone to arrive on the scene with a gun, the more people who will be harmed by such an attack.

Most people understand that guns deter criminals. If a killer were stalking your family, would you feel safer putting a sign out front announcing, "This Home Is a Gun-Free Zone"? But that is what the Westroads Mall did.

mad.radhu
12-06-2007, 08:16 PM
Wow. Talk about something you never expected to see in print on anything other than some guy's blog.

That's a really well worded article. I wonder if it's going to catch any attention.

Rontalvos
12-06-2007, 08:30 PM
I have never seen such a well written piece published by Fox news. It's so full of actual intelligence and insight, I'm amazed to see it coming out of todays news media.

Scarecrow411
12-07-2007, 05:24 AM
The author was John Lott (http://books.google.com/books?as_auth=John+R+Lott&ots=xJO2CBdtUU&sa=X&oi=print&ct=title&cad=author-navigational&hl=en). So while I won't call the peice "fair and balanced" it is nice to see gun advocacy in the media for a change.

Fang
12-07-2007, 01:20 PM
Unfortunately, the people who should read this article are the same ones who would scoff at its source: "Faux News? Pfff! It's not fair and balanced! If it were fair and balanced, it would agree with my political views!"

Scarecrow411
12-07-2007, 02:37 PM
Faux News? Pfff! It's not fair and balanced! If it were fair and balanced, it would report facts in an unbiased manner.

Corrected for accuracy. Now shut up! Cut his keyboard. :love:

TenementFunster
01-03-2008, 10:43 AM
John Lott is a thoroughly-discredited fool. It is embarrassing that the pro-gun community will cling to anybody, no matter how disingenuous or outcast from the academic community, just so long as they say things we want to hear.

We're not doing ourselves any favors by purposefully misrepresenting the goal of gun-free zones. It isn't to stop spree killers, and we need to stop pretending it is just to make a cheap point. Whether or not you agree with a business' view on concealed firearms, you must respect the basic property rights that allow individuals or companies to choose not to allow weapons on their premises.

This isn't an "article" it is an opinion piece, and Fox News is the only entity with such a low concern for valid discourse or professional reputation to run a piece by John Lott. I mean come on, are you guys seriously getting behind the person who wrote "Freedomnomics"? Lott is a hack and a shill. Check out his wikipedia entry for a cursory glance.



Few know that Dylan Klebold, one of the two Columbine killers, closely was following Colorado legislation that would have allowed citizens to carry a concealed handgun. Klebold strongly opposed the legislation and openly talked about it.
[Citation needed]

Nitrogen
01-04-2008, 12:10 AM
What *IS* the purpose of gun free zones then, if not to stop crime?

Scope
01-04-2008, 12:49 AM
To disarm law abiding citizens?

TenementFunster
01-04-2008, 01:41 AM
What *IS* the purpose of gun free zones then, if not to stop crime?
So are you being willfully ignorant of the many types of crime, or are you just really that dumb? I expect more of you, but maybe I shouldn't.


To disarm law abiding citizens?
Why shouldn't property owners be able to say what the public can and cannot bring onto their property? I don't want armed strangers coming into my house, I don't know about you.


CCW is great for a lot of situations, but an impromptu mall posse isn't one of them. How many times do I have to repeat it? Life isn't like counterstrike - the bad guys don't wear uniforms, and CCW holders just aren't trained to recognize threats in such situations. Cops are, and they still suck at it. Business owners are trying to avoid looking legally responsible for any "friendly fire" incidents and the chance, however remote, that a 'law abiding citizen' will flip - both of which would result in serious legal/civil action.


Sorry this took so long to show up, what with my posts being moderated and all. I guess upsetting the echo chamber can be a bit unpopular!

Clinotus
01-04-2008, 02:17 AM
So are you being willfully ignorant of the many types of crime, or are you just really that dumb? I expect more of you, but maybe I shouldn't.


Why shouldn't property owners be able to say what the public can and cannot bring onto their property? I don't want armed strangers coming into my house, I don't know about you.


CCW is great for a lot of situations, but an impromptu mall posse isn't one of them. How many times do I have to repeat it? Life isn't like counterstrike - the bad guys don't wear uniforms, and CCW holders just aren't trained to recognize threats in such situations. Cops are, and they still suck at it. Business owners are trying to avoid looking legally responsible for any "friendly fire" incidents and the chance, however remote, that a 'law abiding citizen' will flip - both of which would result in serious legal/civil action.


Sorry this took so long to show up, what with my posts being moderated and all. I guess upsetting the echo chamber can be a bit unpopular!


Excellent points.

Gun free zones are more or less in the arena of 'feel good legislation' but unfortunately on the streets that arena is filled with lions and if I can continue my allude the average citizen the Christian.

While indeed the right of the property owner to ask that their patrons not engage in carrying to avoid “friendly fire” and the assumed liability if any (very valid point), they also remove the ability of a lawfully armed person to patronize their establishment or defend themselves while within that establishment..

The 'Gun Free Zones' cast a net that attempts to outlaw legal carry for those who simply carry for personal protection; the reality of the situation is that the only persons handicapped by such laws and requests are the legal LTC/CCWs as the 'bad guys' don't follow or respect the law in the first place. Which is why those with Licenses To Carry carry.

Now this is all fine and dandy but returning to our shopkeeper, is he then going to to assume liability if something does occur? Have they an armed guard, a trained police officer on instant respond?

Or should I wait for some common sense legislation to occur that allows me as a non-rambo to carry where I please? As far as I know Arizona and New Hampshire have bill sscheduled that will transfer liability back to the property owner for any harm that occurs on that property as the result of a Gun Free Zone.